[Lmms-users] How to create Blue/Jazz notes

[Raindrops From Sky]

Hi all,

I want to add a tip for Jazz/Blue music in the forthcoming version of User
Manual.

This mail is for those of you who understand Blue/Jazz music.

(*Note*: I am not into Western music at all. The following discussion is
based on what wikipedia describes. So please be patient and explain the
nuances in detail, so that I can do justice to the subject in the User
Manual.)

The core issue is, *how to produce Blue notes that are so essential for
Jazz/Blue*.

The Piano Editor does not allow us to pitch-shift individual notes.
The Song-Editor track does not have a separate knob for Pitch. Thus we
cannot automate it for a specific note.
The pitch control is available at instrument level, which means any
constant/automated shift will apply to ALL notes produced by the instrument.

So, the moot point is, with these limitations, how to create blue notes in
LMMS?

Well, one trick that occurs to me is to add another identical instrument to
the Song Editor, with its pitch lowered by the required amount.
Let's call this "worried instrument"! :)

Whenever the "main" instrument is supposed to play a worried note, the
"worried instrument" plays that same note, which *actually* sounds flat.

If the musician needs to shift different worried notes by different amount,
he will have to add more "worried instruments", each with a different pitch
shift.

(This trick is similar to what we do to produce the percussion track in BB
Editor.)

But I am not sure if this trick would produce an acceptable quality of
blue/jazz music.
We need input from a practicing musician of Blue/Jazz genre.
CAN someone confirm?

Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Narayan

[Raindrops From Sky]

After I posted the idea, I realized that there is a huge roadblock: The
Piano Roll Editor does not allow user to stack instruments like BB Editor.
So you cannot replace specific "normal" notes with "blue" notes.

When these instruments are stacked in the Song Editor, you cannot
interweave the individual notes of different instruments (as in BB Editor).

So the solution would be to add a Pitch knob to the Song Editor, which will
allow both pitch-shifting and pitch-bending of specific notes.

While the pitch-shifting will allow us to create blue notes, the
pitch-bending would allow us to play instruments like Sitar and Veena,
which have gamak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamaka_%28music%29) in all
their notes.

Indeed, many keyboards have the pitch-shifter pedals and/or knobs.
So if they consider it to be a much-needed control, why not have it
accessible in LMMS too?

Regards,
Narayan


On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 11:38 AM, Raindrops From Sky <

Post by Raindrops From Sky
Hi all,
I want to add a tip for Jazz/Blue music in the forthcoming version of User
Manual.
This mail is for those of you who understand Blue/Jazz music.
(*Note*: I am not into Western music at all. The following discussion is
based on what wikipedia describes. So please be patient and explain the
nuances in detail, so that I can do justice to the subject in the User
Manual.)
The core issue is, *how to produce Blue notes that are so essential for
Jazz/Blue*.
The Piano Editor does not allow us to pitch-shift individual notes.
The Song-Editor track does not have a separate knob for Pitch. Thus we
cannot automate it for a specific note.
The pitch control is available at instrument level, which means any
constant/automated shift will apply to ALL notes produced by the instrument.
So, the moot point is, with these limitations, how to create blue notes in
LMMS?
Well, one trick that occurs to me is to add another identical instrument
to the Song Editor, with its pitch lowered by the required amount.
Let's call this "worried instrument"! :)
Whenever the "main" instrument is supposed to play a worried note, the
"worried instrument" plays that same note, which *actually* sounds flat.
If the musician needs to shift different worried notes by different
amount, he will have to add more "worried instruments", each with a
different pitch shift.
(This trick is similar to what we do to produce the percussion track in BB
Editor.)
But I am not sure if this trick would produce an acceptable quality of
blue/jazz music.
We need input from a practicing musician of Blue/Jazz genre.
CAN someone confirm?
Thanks in advance!
Regards,
Narayan

[Raine M. Ekman]

Post by Raindrops From Sky
The core issue is, *how to produce Blue notes that are so essential for
Jazz/Blue*.

I'm pretty sure people play both blues and jazz music on pianos, which
are even more limited than LMMS. So you could start by not writing
things like "LMMS cannot create Jazz and Blues music".

Post by Raindrops From Sky
The Piano Editor does not allow us to pitch-shift individual notes.

You can bend an individual note through the "detune" feature:
https://lmms.io/documentation/1.0:Piano_Roll_Editor#Editing.

Detuning a note doesn't work for MIDI-based plugins, i.e. Vestige, SF2
player, OpulenZ and ZynAddSubFX. For those you only have pitch bend
for the whole instrument at once.

OTOH, ZynAddSubFX has a pretty universal retuning mechanism, see:
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/doc_2.html#w2

You could use that for tracks that need pitches outside the 12-tone
equal temperament. It should be quite a bit more convenient than
separately automating every note of some pitch.

Post by Raindrops From Sky
The pitch control is available at instrument level, which means any
constant/automated shift will apply to ALL notes produced by the instrument.

This is the minimum level of support for pitch control, it's pretty
much equivalent to what MIDI offers in live play. It works for
monophonic lines, but is quite a bit more trouble to automate than
note detuning as the automation track will be separate from the note
segment.

There's an issue filed on the tuning subject:
https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1387

Post by Raindrops From Sky
So the solution would be to add a Pitch knob to the Song Editor, which will
allow both pitch-shifting and pitch-bending of specific notes.

Wouldn't you need at least two, one to select the note and one to
bend? Or 12, if you want to shift/bend more than one note at the same
time?

[Raindrops From Sky]

My responses are inline.

Regards,
Narayan

Post by Raine M. Ekman

Post by Raindrops From Sky
The core issue is, *how to produce Blue notes that are so essential for
Jazz/Blue*.

I'm pretty sure people play both blues and jazz music on pianos, which
are even more limited than LMMS. So you could start by not writing
things like "LMMS cannot create Jazz and Blues music".

wow- why the flame?

Post by Raine M. Ekman

Post by Raindrops From Sky
The Piano Editor does not allow us to pitch-shift individual notes.

https://lmms.io/documentation/1.0:Piano_Roll_Editor#Editing.

Ok I had missed this new feature. It actually provides both shifting and
bending.
But it is not a universal solution anyway (see below).

Post by Raine M. Ekman
Detuning a note doesn't work for MIDI-based plugins, i.e. Vestige, SF2
player, OpulenZ and ZynAddSubFX. For those you only have pitch bend
for the whole instrument at once.
http://zynaddsubfx.sourceforge.net/doc_2.html#w2
You could use that for tracks that need pitches outside the 12-tone
equal temperament. It should be quite a bit more convenient than
separately automating every note of some pitch.

Post by Raindrops From Sky
The pitch control is available at instrument level, which means any
constant/automated shift will apply to ALL notes produced by the

instrument.
This is the minimum level of support for pitch control, it's pretty
much equivalent to what MIDI offers in live play. It works for
monophonic lines, but is quite a bit more trouble to automate than
note detuning as the automation track will be separate from the note
segment.
https://github.com/LMMS/lmms/issues/1387

Post by Raindrops From Sky
So the solution would be to add a Pitch knob to the Song Editor, which

will

Post by Raindrops From Sky
allow both pitch-shifting and pitch-bending of specific notes.

Wouldn't you need at least two, one to select the note and one to
bend? Or 12, if you want to shift/bend more than one note at the same
time?

Actually I was thinking of applying an automation track to this knob,
rather than changing its value by default.

Post by Raine M. Ekman
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